Bigger Than Anxiety: How Solo Travel Builds Confidence & Freedom

Travel writer Laura Studarus (BBC, National Geographic, Marie Claire) opens up about navigating chronic anxiety while embracing the transformative power of solo travel. From an “accidental” solo trip to Copenhagen to intentional adventures across Amsterdam, Tokyo, and beyond, Laura shares honest stories about listening to your gut, overcoming fear, and finding joy in everyday rituals on the road. In this episode, she reminds us that solo travel doesn’t have to be fearless to be meaningful—it just has to be yours.

Transcript

Laura Studarus (00:00)
Something I learned about myself during solo travel is that I'm bigger than my anxiety. I am bigger than all the stories in my head I've been telling myself. And there is a lot more world than I ever thought there would be.

Kelli Wall (00:14)
Welcome to Solo Travel Unpacked, where we explore the world one solo travel story at a time.

I'm your host Kelli and I believe that solo travel.

is a journey of self-discovery, empowerment, and connection.

Each episode, we'll meet a different solo and hear their insights, experiences, and lessons learned.

We'll also take a look at a key solo travel topic

to give you the tools and inspiration for your own adventure.

It's time to hear from today's guest and unpack another solo travel story.

Kelli Wall (00:44)
Laura, I'm so glad you're here. Before we dive into all things travel and anxiety, can you tell us a little bit about who you are outside of all the passport stamps and what fills your days when you're not on the road?

Laura Studarus (00:57)
I, wow, that is a very big opening question. I am an introvert. It'll probably find me inside the gigantic bed that I bought with the linen sheets, which I'm never home to use, petting my cat and reading. In the last few years, I've also gotten very into scuba diving. And I think

The attraction, at least a little bit, is the fact that no one can talk to you underwater. And occasionally I like to see the people I love. They remind me that they do exist in my hometown and I actually try to make contact.

Kelli Wall (01:28)
Well, I'm a cat lady as well, so I'm right there with you. That's like the perfect chill out. He's beating down the door, so hopefully he's a menace and he'd be in here if I didn't. So I can totally, I'm right there with you. Well, let's go back to that first solo trip. You said Copenhagen was an accidental one. What happened?

Laura Studarus (01:49)
It was. I should rewind a little bit. Before travel became one of my favorite things to write about, I was an indie rock kid. I started out my journalism career at a music magazine. Still really good friends with the owners. And within the music world, the international music world, there are press trips, which they will bring journalists out to festivals, trot you around the city a little, give you a sense of like time and place.

You had to see a few good shows and hopefully go back and write things, which will make everyone want to come out and go to that festival. So I immediately fell in love with that circuit, which was part of the clue that I needed to get more invested in traveling. And so a friend of mine and I decided one year we were going to go to Riskilde, which is like, imagine the Danish Coachella with, how do I say this diplomatically, a lot more drinking and urine. Um, and yeah.

Kelli Wall (02:38)
I have a visual.

Laura Studarus (02:40)
I've made some amazing friends in Denmark, always thankful to go there now. But, at the time I was like, all right, is this what the Danes are like? They're all very, very drunk and a little scary. But, so thankfully Riskilder agreed to fly us out. She was coming from South Africa. I was coming from LA and my flight got in the day before she did. And I had this realization on the plane that suddenly I had a whole, I think it was like,

36 hours in a city where I knew no one and nothing. And honestly, in retrospect, I'm glad it just threw me off the deep end. I suddenly had to make decisions for myself and figure out how to get to my hotel. And there really wasn't time for anxiety.

Kelli Wall (03:26)
Yeah, it just, you had to be thrown right into it. Maybe that's better.

Laura Studarus (03:30)
Yeah, I've never been like a jump off the diving board kind of girl, but I think metaphorically I might be like just a little bit.

Kelli Wall (03:37)
Yeah, so you took that accidental solo trip to Copenhagen and then after that you mentioned Amsterdam was your first intentional solo trip. So what made you take that leap?

Laura Studarus (03:48)
Yeah, it was another music festival, Lagos Who in Utrecht, which I can't recommend enough if you're all interested in music and travel and culture and life. It's such like a beautiful summation of like world music. So I had a few days between that and a conference that I was going to in Warsaw. And so there's a spot and I could have easily gone to Warsaw at this point. I had made a lot of friends there, but I thought

What if I just slow my roll? I've never been to Amsterdam. I've heard amazing things. I can book an Airbnb there. is no one stopping so I did. And I be the kind of girl whose anxiety goes into planning and understanding made like this list. I booked a tour. So I'd have like one day where maybe I'd see people and interact. And I kind of just went for it. Now looking at in retrospect, I've been to Amsterdam many times. and

I really enjoy the city because it's a very quiet city. It's very easy to navigate. Not a lot of ambient chatter. But at the time, thinking back about how nervous I was for that train ride between Utrecht and Amsterdam, which is like a half hour, but it might as well have been like an eternity going into that first one.

Kelli Wall (04:58)
so you touched a little bit there on anxiety and you've talked about, I spoke about in your intro about how you live with chronic anxiety. How does that affect your relationship with travel?

Laura Studarus (05:06)
Mm-hmm.

You know, it is really interesting and I've been in therapy for a couple of years. It's made a world of difference. I'm so thankful for that experience, but it was something I felt like I couldn't talk about for a long time. In fact, I think, I want to say that last year, this year's the first year I actively made a conscious effort to start writing about Because there is, whether you like it or not, we live in an Instagram culture. Everything is shiny and beautiful and you're putting your highlight reel up. And I thought,

You know, everyone keeps telling me I have this charmed life. There's no room for me to post a reel of me crying in a bathroom because I'm stressed out. There's no like room for me to be like, yeah, I was scared to ask for directions because I didn't speak the language. And it's like, wait a minute, if this is happening to me, I can't be the only one, right? Like I am not that special of a human being at the end of the day. So it's interesting because

I feel almost like traveling and as much traveling as I do. I'm on the road for about half the year. It has broken down anxieties in ways that I didn't even know could be, and I hate the term fixed, but examined. I've had to like constantly go up to people I don't know and say like, Hey, it's the subway over there and deal with that like internalized anxiety of I don't speak your language.

I don't look like you. I'm clearly an outsider. I've had to go into professional situations and say, hey, I'm here for you to teach me. I know nothing about this. Let's learn. And honestly, it's again, like I, some reason today, I just keep coming back to the diving board metaphor, but like the more times you jump off that diving board and realize that the water is actually a pretty inviting place, the more you want to do it.

Kelli Wall (06:58)
Yeah, absolutely. And it's being willing to make yourself vulnerable, which I know is not easy, but it's just a part of the experience. So you've done so much solo travel. Were there any moments on your trips when anxiety showed up louder than you expected or maybe caught you off guard?

Laura Studarus (07:16)
You know, there was a really interesting moment in Taiwan. can't say enough good things about the country. I I chose to go there for two weeks alone and I had pre-booked everything, got to my hotel and the hotel did not look like the pictures. It smelled like cigarette smoke. There was trash down the hall. And I remember talking myself out of my anxiety to stay there initially and thinking, you know, I'm overreacting.

I took myself out to lunch and I remember sitting there at this really lovely vegan place and thinking, well, you know, it's only for three days before my next stop. Maybe I could just like get up early, go to bed late. And then I realized, wait a minute, I'm talking myself out of a gut feeling. I don't feel comfortable. I don't feel safe. What am I trying to prove to myself here? And I think that was a really powerful moment of realizing that sometimes your anxiety is trying to tell you something.

Kelli Wall (08:11)
Yes.

Laura Studarus (08:11)
And

you do have to slow down and listen. And I thought, would I stay with this in this place? It was me and my best friend traveling together. Absolutely not. We would have looked at each other and been like, let's get out of here. So why, what am I trying to prove being the one to be like, can handle anything. I'm a solo traveler. No, you don't have to handle everything. You don't have to like beat the anxiety in those moments.

Kelli Wall (08:36)
Yeah, and then you can easily say, hey, you know what? I thought this was gonna be this, but it's not. So let's go somewhere else. So it's really listening to those gut feelings that you get. And you said, just with that example, that you're able to listen to yourself and not try to convince yourselves. So Laura, are there any other ways that you support yourself while traveling solo with your anxiety? And kind of any go-tos, any boundaries or little rituals that help you?

Laura Studarus (08:41)
Mm-hmm. ⁓

Thanks.

a really good

I try to make it a point when I'm traveling alone and I don't have a support system, whether it's in the country, in the city, to remind myself my support system exists. text a friend at the end of the day and text a few photos and be like, look what I saw today. And my friends know that that's their cue to text back and be like, let me share something with you.

A lot of it comes to feeling connected and feeling supported. And I was just talking to a friend at lunch today about this. Like, I feel so lucky that I have someone in so many different time zones who can be that person and that, I can return to be that person. And then I think from a personal level, there's just little things of like, you know, I have my morning routine. I get up, I take my probiotic, I stretch.

And it's like, well, you you can do that in any time zone. You can drink your water. You can like journal, whatever it takes to like set yourself up for the day. Cause every day looks dramatically different when I'm on the road. And yes.

Kelli Wall (10:01)
Yeah, those grounding rituals are so important.

Laura Studarus (10:04)
And they don't have to be, I think in my head before I started therapy, they had to be a big thing. Like, if you don't do this one exercise tape, if you don't answer all your emails before you leave the door, you're doing it wrong. And it's like, wait,

Who said that? I don't, my life and my grounding and how I choose to handle those moments when anxiety does pop up, does not have to look like everyone else's. Goodness knows my career doesn't.

Kelli Wall (10:28)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Even if it's just something as little as taking one big deep breath, you know, before you get out of bed, before you start that day, just that one calming moment can help so much. And you talked to Laura, I love what you said, that you said you held solo travel to such a high standard that you didn't even realize you were doing it. Can you unpack that a little bit?

Laura Studarus (10:36)
No, no, ⁓

Yeah.

Yeah, think, you know, when

think of the solo traveler and like the we think of the person who's doing six months in India, we think of the person who's backpacking across Europe alone. And I mean, I know people who've done things like that and all the power to them. But if you're alone, and you're away from home, you're solo traveling. And so

I had discounted all the press trips that I took alone because I thought, well, you know, I have someone making all the arrangements for me. That doesn't count. I had discounted the day here and there. mean, it took me years before I realized, wait, Copenhagen counts. Making the choice to go to that tourist spot, to go have that falafel for lunch. That's solo travel. It doesn't have to be dramatic.

Kelli Wall (11:32)
Yeah, absolutely.

it doesn't have to be this big grand thing. And that is a perfect segue when you spoke about lunch, because solo dining is one of those things that sounds simple, but can be really vulnerable. And honestly, it is something that comes up all the time when I speak to different guests. So I'm curious, yeah, what was your, yes, what was your experience with it? And how do you work through solo dining with the anxiety?

Laura Studarus (11:59)
gosh. Right?

you

You know, at first I told myself I'm not a foodie. you know, I can just get a takeout and take it back to my room. I'm not a foodie. have email, like all the excuses in the book. but on my most recent solo trip, I spent a week alone in Tokyo. Best time. If anyone's listening and looking for a photo for solo trip, I highly recommend it. and I love how they set things up for solo diners. You're not othered.

You're not shoved in a weird corner. It's very mainstreamed into culture. So I could go to an Okinomiaki restaurant and sit at the bar and watch them make these wonderful Japanese pancake like dishes, which they need to export more to America. But that's a side rant And not feel like everyone in the bar was looking at me going like, what's her deal? That was not the case when I started, when I was back in Amsterdam.

I remember nervously going into restaurants and being like, look at me, I have a book. I will put the book over my face. I am reading. I was very performative. and so yeah, I mean, I don't regret any of that. I, again, book girl reader, that's what I do when I'm at home, but I do regret feeling like I had to perform happiness when I was driving alone instead of just contentment, enjoyment.

And yeah, I mean, I respect anyone who's on that journey and doesn't feel like they can because goodness knows it took me years. Yeah.

Kelli Wall (13:33)
I mean, and

you make a great point if that's your comfort. Now we all have our phones in our hands. If that's your comfort, a book, your phone, and it gets you to take that first, yes, and it gets you to take that first step, do it. I remember not that long ago, I went to lunch at a restaurant downstairs and I was talking to friend later. I'm like, oh, I just went and grabbed lunch by yourself? Did you take your computer? She's like, no, I just wanted to get out and grab lunch, but I get it. I mean, there's a stigma behind it, but.

Laura Studarus (13:38)
Mm-hmm.

Thank

Kelli Wall (14:00)
you can get there and the bar is like the number one thing that people say is sit at the bar because it's less, it feels a little more comfortable. So Laura, as you're doing this and you're learning these little nuances as you're doing all your solo travel, was there a moment when it clicked that realization that solo travel means you're allowed to do whatever you want?

Laura Studarus (14:03)
Bye!

Yeah! ⁓

You know,

I think I figured that out pretty early have incredible niche interests. I'm the girl who wants to be in the water diving. I'm the girl who wants to go to the tea factory. What's a tea factory? The tea shop and ask all like the really geeky questions. I'm the girl who wants to go cry at a museum when there's a moving exhibition. And getting to do that without worrying that

Am I picking out my Earl Grey fast enough? Am I getting too weird about the Sakamoto exhibit? Am I booking too many dive trips and you're bored and you're on your own? Like that happened, think probably right after Copenhagen when I was playing back what I did on my free day. now I absolutely lean into it. I made a PDF of like places to try in Tokyo that despite the fact I've been there 10 times, I have never gone.

I hit practically every like spa in day spa in Tokyo because I'm like, it's cheap and who's going to tell me otherwise? And I think I don't allow myself to be mindlessly indulgent that often. I'm on the clock. I'm working. I'm trying to figure out what it all means. So yeah, the pleasure, I mean, the pleasure hit almost instantaneously and I feel like I'm still scraping away new bed.

like levels of what it means to enjoy solo travel.

Kelli Wall (15:43)
so often it is lovely to travel with friends and family. But when you travel with more than one person, I'm stating the obvious, you lean in to what maybe you might not want to do it, but you're going to do it because they want to do it that's okay. Maybe it brings you a new experience and vice versa. But a perk of solo travel is that you can just do what you want to do. And we talked about dining, so this might be your answer. But is there anything else that you once found intimidating about travel alone that now you genuinely enjoy?

Laura Studarus (16:03)
Mm-hmm.

Honestly, I

say that this extends to life in general. It's going to a place specifically to pick up a new skill and admitting I am a novice. I think as an adult, we don't want to acknowledge that we're not good at something. Like we feel like, our formula leaders are past us. Now we're hitting expert mastery level. And that was really hard for me at first.

a lot of the press trips I went on would be like, let's all try this skill. it would be like, wait, but what if I'm not good at the thing? Well, yeah, I'm not good at a lot of things and that is fine. Now I love it. And I'd have to say I part of it definitely came from diving and I took my first dive class while I was in Taiwan. But part of it just came from conquering a lot of that anxiety and

doing the work and doing the therapy and sitting with my feelings and all the things which my therapist would be very proud that I'm mentioning right now and realizing, you know, I'm kind of goofy. Life is kind of goofy and that's fine. Like, am I going to really let that stand between me and an experience that I want to have for the first time?

Kelli Wall (17:19)
it's much easier to just go with the flow and roll and allow yourself to be vulnerable. And you talked about learning something new and being a novice at it. But one thing you are not a novice at is you are a fantastic writer and you've written for some incredible outlets from the BBC to National Geographic. So how does solo travel shape the way that you approach a story?

Laura Studarus (17:22)
You're listening.

Thank you.

immensely. Within the travel world, there are press trips and there are like, well, I'd say three types of trips. There's the ones you find yourself. And I do do a fair, fair bit of that. Like I'm in Warsaw by myself right now. Well, paid for by myself. There are group trips where they bundle a bunch of journalists together and take them to a place to have this experience. And then there are solo press trips where you're sent out on your own to figure out what it all means.

I'm not going to knock group trips. I've had some incredible experiences. I've made some actual friends out of them. but there is a performative element I'll say, especially if you're not the most extroverted person in the room where you're having this experience and it's incredible, but you're also trying to keep up with the group dynamic. and again, I love them. I learned how to be a mermaid in Tahiti. I rode this

gorgeous train across Canada. I rode yachts in Croatia for a week. Zero complaints. But if I'm specifically looking to dig into a story, especially if it's just a little weird, because those are kind of like my favorites to tell, I got called the quirky girl at a travel event and I need to make business cards. ⁓ I want, right? Right?

Kelli Wall (18:58)
Hey, I would own that. That means you're different than everybody else in a good

way. There, you're memorable.

Laura Studarus (19:05)
But when I

in quirky girl mode trying to tell a story, it's nice to be by yourself, to be like, I don't have to have this performative companionship or real companionship. Again, I can list off names of people that I genuinely adore that I've met on trips and just be like, okay, what does this place mean? What does this person mean? What does this story and experience mean? And then synthesize it in whole different way.

Kelli Wall (19:30)
yeah, so you spoke to kind of these different types of trips that you could take and one of them was the self-funded one. So when you're doing these solo trips outside of work, do you ever feel pressure to make a trip productive because of your career and how do you balance that with actually enjoying it?

Laura Studarus (19:46)
100%. I think one thing that always surprises me when I tell people about my career is how rarely I take vacations. It's just, you're constantly jotting down ideas. You're constantly in journalist mode. And on one hand, I don't mind it because it's the way I perceive the world. Before I became a journalist, I was a little girl who when she had an experience would go home and write in her journal.

So on some level, I'm still that little girl and I love that. Like that I get to like write my journal and the only difference is people are seeing it now. On the other hand, there does come a point, no matter how much you love your job, when burnout starts to happen, when you are exhausted, when you feel like you can't possibly figure out what anything else means. And so I've started in the last few years, trying to schedule one vacation for myself and just putting brackets around it and being like, look,

If something comes up six months from now and you have something to write about it, sure, but you are not going to spend the entire trip trying to think about what it means. And most recently that was Tokyo for me. I've written a lot about Tokyo. I loved it, but I think I've never slowed down and been like, how would I spend the perfect day here? I got six of them in a row. I've taken my mom to Hawaii and obviously that's a whole different thing because it's like,

solo travel together, where she'll go off and do her thing, I'll do my thing, and then we'll compare notes at the end of the day. And the more I take a human vacation and have human emotions on a human vacation, the more I realize that, yeah, if I'm gonna keep doing my job, that's something I need to do.

Kelli Wall (21:07)
Yeah.

absolutely. So Laura, you have shared so many great tips on how you've been incredibly successful with your solo travel, even with your anxiety. So what would you say to someone who's holding back from traveling solo because of anxiety or this fear of being alone?

Laura Studarus (21:41)
I would say, well, first of all, I won't say just do it because I've gotten that advice in so many areas of my life. And it's so, it annoys me to know in, because it's like, okay, just do it. How? dot, dot. I will say know your why and make that why more powerful than your fears. Do you want to see a place because you feel connected to it?

Do you want to see it because you read a book that took place there? Do you want to go to Paris and sit in the cafe where they shop Omelia and eat creme brulee? I think the beautiful thing about it is there is no wrong answer. If you feel drawn enough that you're even remotely flirting with the idea of booking the ticket, you have your why. And no one gets to judge that. So I would say if you're flirting with solo travel, hold on to your why. Cultivate it. Make it stronger to the point where you almost

can't imagine your life without having this experience. And then once you get to that point and push yourself over the edge, then you can just do it.

Kelli Wall (22:45)
that is fantastic advice. Follow your curiosity. If it's piquing your interest, dig in, as you said, to the why for it. So Laura, I'm curious, what's something that solo travel has taught you that's stuck with you, even when you're back home?

Laura Studarus (23:01)
I grew up thinking I was a very specific kind of person. I was an introvert. I was a homebody. I was a book girl. I was ready to live my entire life in my hometown, which is actually kind of ironic because I do still live in my hometown. But what I learned through solo travel is, yeah, I'm all those things and those things are pretty cool. But I'm also the kind of girl who does follow her why.

I'm the kind of girl who does get curious and obsessed and gets out there and does the thing. And I've also learned that it's not scary to redefine yourself. In fact, it's really liberating to think that you can contain all those things you thought about yourself, plus this additional layer.

Kelli Wall (23:47)
shared so much great advice and even little tips that I'm gonna take with me on my future trips. Yeah, so at this point in the episode, I always ask the guest to share a solo travel story. It can be one that's maybe challenged you or surprised you or just an unforgettable experience.

Laura Studarus (23:51)
Woo!

Alright, so went through this phase shortly after my stepfather died where I was pretty depressed with good reason. And then I broke my foot on a press trip, which... Terrible moment. So glad other people were there. And so the following year I decided, you know what? Screw it. If something makes me feel uncomfortable, I'm gonna do it. Even if I hate something, I'm gonna do it.

and just like live through the experience and have those feelings. So it was a press trip that I went to solo. And again, like, honestly, it takes redefining solo travel to realize that when you're going to experience without other people, like you're bestie by your side that counts. It was a press trip to Bora Bora to learn how to mermaid.

Kelli Wall (24:52)
That's a rough press trip. my.

Laura Studarus (24:53)
I know, please pity me.

Pity me, but like

the time, you know, I'm recovering from a broken foot. I'm feeling really insecure with my body because I've been sitting on my butt for three months. I had never been to a tropical location. I told myself, despite growing up next to the Pacific, I hated the ocean. I had never even jumped off a boat before. And so I thought, oh, this is going to be so uncomfortable. I am going to.

hate every moment of it. First of all, that's not true. No one hates Bora Bora, even people like me have been called a sunshine goth girl. And I was, also I was

Kelli Wall (25:32)
Very specific.

Laura Studarus (25:35)
into this with a bunch of people who were professional divers, who had their petty certifications, who had traveled around the world. I was intimidated. And honestly, I hope they're all listening to this because they will get a laugh out of it now.

jumped off the boat into the blue waters, immediately fell in love, put a purple mermaid tail on because that was the color I told myself as a child. If I was playing, you know, when I was playing mermaids in the pool, I'd tell people I had a purple tail, put the purple tail on and suddenly entered this world that I didn't even know I was going to like. By the end of the week, all those people who I was like, they're so much better than me.

We're like the coolest people I know, in fact, are still some of the coolest people I know. All those people, this activity, which I thought, you're going to hate every moment of it. We were jumping into the water during our free time because we couldn't get enough of it. And it completely reshaped. I now go to the Maldives. I now go diving off the coast of where I live. And this all happened so fast. It was like, wait.

I mean, I always laugh because I'm like, it's so cliche. I went on a press trip and it changed my life, but also I went on a press trip and it changed my life. And I did it without someone holding my hand.

Kelli Wall (26:52)
what a full circle moment because you spoke about how if you're not interested in something or maybe you don't wanna do it, one, you listen to your guy if it's not so right, like the hotel, but also these experiences to not turn away from it. And it's such a beautiful example because you ended up loving it.

Laura Studarus (26:53)
Yeah!

Exactly. So yeah, I'm adventurous. Who knew?

Kelli Wall (27:11)
Yeah.

Well, now you know.

Laura, thank you so much. This has been awesome hearing your stories and your advice. We are at the very end of the episode. So we will end today's episode with me asking you.

The same three questions we ask every guest. So first up, the advice I'd give to someone considering solo travel is.

Laura Studarus (27:34)
The advice I would give someone considering solo travel is make your curiosity bigger than your fear. Allow that to grow to the point where you just can't imagine your life without this experience.

Kelli Wall (27:47)
My favorite part about solo travel is...

Laura Studarus (27:52)
My favorite part about solo travel is knowing that I get to be as indulgent, as curious, and as adventurous as I want to be.

Kelli Wall (28:02)
something I learned about myself during solo travel is.

Laura Studarus (28:07)
Something I learned about myself during solo travel is that I'm bigger than my anxiety. I am bigger than all the stories in my head I've been telling myself. And there is a lot more world than I ever thought there would be.

Kelli Wall (28:24)
So powerful. Laura, thank you so much again for your honesty and insight today. Your story is a beautiful reminder that solo travel doesn't have to be fearless to be meaningful. It just has to be yours. Whether it's navigating anxiety, embracing those solo meals, or realizing you don't have to earn your rest, you've shown that personal freedom can look like a thousand tiny choices, not just big bold leaps, even though leaps off the boat sound pretty fantastic. If you want to follow along with Laura's work.

Laura Studarus (28:34)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli Wall (28:53)
You can find her on Instagram and we'll tag her on our Instagram Solo Travel Unpacked pod her writing in places like National Geographic, Marie Claire and the Daily Beast. Thank you so much for tuning in in this episode. If it's resonated with you, consider sharing it with someone who might need a little nudge to take that first solo trip, even if it's just to a local cafe. Laura, thank you again for sharing all your stories and your wonderful advice.

Laura Studarus (29:17)
Thank

you, it's been delightful.

Kelli Wall (29:20)
Awesome. Thank you so much. Take care.

Kelli Wall (29:22)
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